the grammar debate in full
Feb. 7th, 2002 09:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ateolfmy words will be in standard font, his will be in italics...
upon taking the grammar test on your site and getting less than 100%, i went back to see what the mistake was, changing answers around until i found out which one...and according to your test "I like books, movies, and cooking." is an incorrect sentence...i'm assuming that you say this in reference to the fact that "I like books, movies and cooking." is a correct sentence...but they are both correct grammatical forms, it's just a matter of preference...i just thought i should call your attention to this...
my intended error in that sentence is not in comma usage, but in consistency within the list. "books" and "movies" are nouns, while "cooking" is a verb. it's a rather picky rule. i've gotten more email about this one than any other.
but that's not true either..."cooking" is a gerund, a verb form which acts like a noun...as in "Cooking is something i like to do."
in that case, i can replace "cooking" in your sentence with any noun. i'll try "tree". "tree is something i like to do".
just because it doesn't make any sense doesn't make it a noun...of course replacing words here and there will make a sentence weird, it still holds true to being a noun as in "tree is someTHING" ... "cooking is someTHING"...the same works for a sentence w/ the word "philosophy": "philosophy is something i like to study" to "tree is something i like to study" don't tell me that "philosophy" isn't a noun either...
i apologize for my email yesterday. i was in a bad mood when i replied to you, and rather than take it out on my girlfriend i just vented in a few emails i was writing at the time.
i do understand what you mean, and i thought of that before i put the quiz online. i don't think it's always possible for everyone to agree on rules like this one. i have a few very reliable sources with whom i consulted while preparing the quiz, and they all agree with me. what i believe, and what they support, is that even though a gerund can be used as a noun, it is still a different part of speech and should therefore, to be completely proper, not be used in the way that it is in that sentence. the sentence could be reworded as "i like reading books, watching movies, and cooking food" as well as a few other ways.
i'm certainly not saying that you are wrong, though. i suppose maybe i should have chosen a different verb, one that cannot be used as a gerund like this. what about, "i like books, movies, and to cook"?
that's okay...i kind've see where you're coming from, but i think that gerunds have a stronger identity as a noun than other verb forms...here's an example i found in a book: Avoid such ill-matched combinations as "Wisdom, learning, and to know are not the same." "To know" is an infinitive and does not fit the pattern established by "widsom, learning . . .". "Widsom, learning, and knowledge . . ." would be better. (sorry if i'm bothering you w/ this, beating the argument into the ground or whatever...i'm just trying to finish the argument...)
you're not bothering me. it's good to have an intelligent conversation once in a while. your example seems to fit in with what i suggested before (i like books, movies, and to cook).
i'm not sure whether you read my recent log entry, but i might be taking the quizzes down soon because i'm afraid that i'll be stuck with a huge bill from my host. we're only a week into february and i've already used up half of my allowed data transfer. if and when the quizzes go down and come back up, i'll most likely change this question. i still stand by my original argument, though.
upon taking the grammar test on your site and getting less than 100%, i went back to see what the mistake was, changing answers around until i found out which one...and according to your test "I like books, movies, and cooking." is an incorrect sentence...i'm assuming that you say this in reference to the fact that "I like books, movies and cooking." is a correct sentence...but they are both correct grammatical forms, it's just a matter of preference...i just thought i should call your attention to this...
my intended error in that sentence is not in comma usage, but in consistency within the list. "books" and "movies" are nouns, while "cooking" is a verb. it's a rather picky rule. i've gotten more email about this one than any other.
but that's not true either..."cooking" is a gerund, a verb form which acts like a noun...as in "Cooking is something i like to do."
in that case, i can replace "cooking" in your sentence with any noun. i'll try "tree". "tree is something i like to do".
just because it doesn't make any sense doesn't make it a noun...of course replacing words here and there will make a sentence weird, it still holds true to being a noun as in "tree is someTHING" ... "cooking is someTHING"...the same works for a sentence w/ the word "philosophy": "philosophy is something i like to study" to "tree is something i like to study" don't tell me that "philosophy" isn't a noun either...
i apologize for my email yesterday. i was in a bad mood when i replied to you, and rather than take it out on my girlfriend i just vented in a few emails i was writing at the time.
i do understand what you mean, and i thought of that before i put the quiz online. i don't think it's always possible for everyone to agree on rules like this one. i have a few very reliable sources with whom i consulted while preparing the quiz, and they all agree with me. what i believe, and what they support, is that even though a gerund can be used as a noun, it is still a different part of speech and should therefore, to be completely proper, not be used in the way that it is in that sentence. the sentence could be reworded as "i like reading books, watching movies, and cooking food" as well as a few other ways.
i'm certainly not saying that you are wrong, though. i suppose maybe i should have chosen a different verb, one that cannot be used as a gerund like this. what about, "i like books, movies, and to cook"?
that's okay...i kind've see where you're coming from, but i think that gerunds have a stronger identity as a noun than other verb forms...here's an example i found in a book: Avoid such ill-matched combinations as "Wisdom, learning, and to know are not the same." "To know" is an infinitive and does not fit the pattern established by "widsom, learning . . .". "Widsom, learning, and knowledge . . ." would be better. (sorry if i'm bothering you w/ this, beating the argument into the ground or whatever...i'm just trying to finish the argument...)
you're not bothering me. it's good to have an intelligent conversation once in a while. your example seems to fit in with what i suggested before (i like books, movies, and to cook).
i'm not sure whether you read my recent log entry, but i might be taking the quizzes down soon because i'm afraid that i'll be stuck with a huge bill from my host. we're only a week into february and i've already used up half of my allowed data transfer. if and when the quizzes go down and come back up, i'll most likely change this question. i still stand by my original argument, though.
